Comments on: WindSave: All Betz Are Off!

By: peter

peter — Wed, 05 Mar 2008 22:17:24 +0000

hello i managed to purchase 2 windsave genorater motors which i intend to use for water heating they do not have the grid tie inverters but will wire one of them into water tank heating and try to use the other for batterry charging through a charger they seam to give up to 290v when charging so have to use the power on somthing that can take excess voltage will keep you informed if it works.

By: Martin

Martin — Sun, 11 Nov 2007 11:54:45 +0000

Hello,
We have a windsave turbine installed on our house and I am afraid we are not at all impressed, after some modification the noise has been reduced to minimal but the turbine is not efficient and it keeps developing faults just when it appears to actually be doing something.
We are willing to let windsave get it right within reason and will keep you updated on their progress and how the machine performs.
So at the moment the matter is in their hands and we await a speedy solution.

By: tony

tony — Thu, 24 May 2007 17:05:03 +0000

I have read all the comments with interest and agree that a vertical wind turbine attached to the side of a house does not perform as quoted in a wind tunnel. The vortices alone keep the machine spinning and the head out of the wind. We are at present testing vertical axis wind turbines in the uk specifically build for an urban environment. We are still doing the math on them but we are also monitoring there actual performance in real life (not in a lab!) will keep you posted.
You will note that as a company we also consider energy loss as well as production and agree that saving energy is as valueble as making it !!

By: Emma Christy

Emma Christy — Thu, 22 Mar 2007 13:00:39 +0000

Hi, Your calcs are very interesting. I have always been sceptical about the claims for these small roof mounted turbines for several reasons; payback times assume that you are able to consume the energy when it is produced, wich considering this system is off grid makes me sus. Also the mountings would be under serious stress and I question wether this would be structurally viable for 10 years. Further feeding into the ring main is legally questionable as this could on some meters cause them to malfunction if my research is correct. In addition the noise claims for the system are completely out of sync with the stats for other turbines. This would appear to be a case of a big company cashing in to the general publics partial knowledge of climate change and lack of interest in fully researching these technologies before spanding their money. The ols addige of you only get what you pay for appears appropriate to this product and I gather that the claims made will not be leggally binding or checked by any of the easily lead who will buy this generator. I personally see no problem with the national grid provided you are aware of the massive amounts of power lost in this massive system. I think that the answer is in efficientcy, and on grid small scale generation. Our family of 5 have reduced our electricity consumprion from 13.5 to 11.5 kwh per day and I think we can go further. We cook with elec, heat in the main with a wood stove, dry clothes in front of the stove and wash the clothes in a big and efficient machine. We do have two freezers and two fridges so we can save more there on getting more efficient models. Really the problem is with dish washers, and clothes driers, filament light globes, appliances on standby and a general lack of understanding about the massive amounts of energy we in the first world use in contrast with those in the developing world. I have three children all of whom have a right and a desire to inherit a world that is worth living in. They put much of the effort in to reduce our power use and we enjoy and celebrate our lack of consumption.

Realy things like windsave do very little to help and just wrongly ease the consience of those who over consume.

By: Anthony Fox

Anthony Fox — Sun, 14 Jan 2007 09:26:46 +0000

The electric kettle was just clutched at as an illustration. Ban them, I agree! However, 500watts generated 24hours a day could only supply a worthwhile percentage of an energy-efficient household’s needs during the winter months if stored in batteries during low-use periods. At what environmental cost do these deep-cycle lead-acid batteries come? A large enough inverter would then be required to deliver the peak electricity requirement. We really need something that can make every household independent of the national grid without being too inconvenient for the householder. Whatever that is would be a real contributor to saving of the planet.

By: scruss

scruss — Sat, 13 Jan 2007 21:13:22 +0000

Anthony, I should add that electric kettles are a network planner’s nightmare. When I am installed as Ruling Technocrat #1 by a grateful world populace, they’ll be the first thing to be banned …

By: Anthony Fox

Anthony Fox — Sat, 13 Jan 2007 18:01:48 +0000

It’s all very well to say, “don’t think of how much money you’ll save; you must think of saving the planet”, but from Windsave’s own specifications, the device doesn’t even generate enough wattage to power my electric kettle.

Get real! To “save the planet” we need alternative energy sources which added together will supply the energy needs of a very energy-efficient household. Nobody will bother with them unless they do, especially if they cost more to buy and install than the average householder thinks they are worth.

The nearest I have found to any wind turbine system supplying me with a worthwhile amount of electricity requires a rotor of 5 to 10 metres radius with an appropriate mast - for which I would probably not get planning permission in an Area of Outstanding Natural Beauty, and the cost of which I could not pay off in my lifetime.

By: pj

pj — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 08:37:59 +0000

The whole argument ref turbines etc will no doubt rage on for some time until elec gets so expensive that we will have no alternative but to go down the solar/tubine route. I have a house in Spain and I have just been offered a connection to mains electricity, the problem is they want 6000euros connection fee plus 4000 euros as my share of the pylons. This will give me upto 3.5 kw. if I go above that I will be cut off. If the cities require more power then it will be at the expense of rural properties and we will be cut off. Apparently that does occour quite frequently.
I have opted to install a solar/turbine system which is sufficient to run a small house including a washing machine. We currently have solar power and that is brilliant, the addition of a turbine will make it even more reliable. The new turbine and 24 x 2.2v batteries will cost me under 4000 euros, its a no brainer for me.
I think that we should continue to challenge the manufacturers ref their claims of performance and maybe even lobby for some controlling legislation but what we can’t do is dismiss the concept of household generated elec. Spains problem with power ie demand exceeds their capability to generate it, will be our problem in the not too distant future.

By: David Atkins

David Atkins — Fri, 13 Oct 2006 13:34:48 +0000

Whilst I fully appreciate Windsave Inc. (or whatever ther corporate entity is entitled) isn’t a volunteer organisation and probably has mouths to feed, they have at least gone one further than debating the issue to actually providing an option, viable or otherwise.
Other organisations are also offering their solutions, albeit some of them being in the prototype stages with little or no results yet other than theory.

Changes in the rules and regulations of what is an acceptable amount of energy consumption will mean these organisations will already be “on board” and be at an advantage when the sh*t hits the turbine and heavy penalties for excessive consumption start to become enforced.

British Gas, for instance, now insist on all their engineers and contractors being educated to be able provide best practice advice to consumers when new or replacement installations are undertaken by recommending appropriate control gear to make their boilers work as efficiently as possible. SEDBUK Band A & B boilers (>86% efficient) are also the only ones now acceptable in England & Wales in the majority of situations.

Local authorities provide incentives for home owners to insulate their homes to recommended minimum requirements.

New house builds incorporate water saving devices such as rainsavers to use for flushing toilets and washing cars so less water being processed at water treatments works, and therefore yet more energy, is being wasted.

ALL of these actions serve to fulfil Part L (Conservation of energy & power)of Schedule 1 of the Building Regulations 2000 and which we all will at some stage have to comply with.

The First Law of Thermodynamics states “Energy can neither be created nor destroyed, merely converted from one form to another” so no-one should be mislead by companies advocating massive unrealistic energy savings.

By: Graham

Graham — Thu, 12 Oct 2006 12:47:51 +0000

With regards to David Atkins’ comments, Windsave aren’t doing this out of the goodness of their hearts or to save the planet. They’re in it to make a healthy profit and it seems they are willing to lie and bend the truth to Joe Public to make that happen.

There is a serious shortage of information regarding this kind of turbine (not just Windsave’s), their TRUE performance in a typical urban/rural environment, their effect on buildings, the noise they create and pretty much every other feature.

My opinion is that all this is withheld or blurred by the manufacturers because truth is pretty negative. I’d certainly like to know whether David Gordon of Windsave has one installed on his own house.